Tariel Gagnidze: We will have to wait and see whom the President of Russia will consider worth speaking about political issues

Recent energetic actions of Georgian political spectrum will become the issue of discussions for our society over and over again in future. To this end, the attempts of individual politicians to alter the relationship between Russia and Georgia seem especially obvious. Russian authorities have announced more than once that they do not recognize several representatives of Georgian authority, and would not deal with them. Meanwhile, first Zurab Nogaideli and later Nino Burjanadze, due to their meetings and visits to Moscow, became the figures surrounded with interest.

Tariel Gagnidze, the Chair of NGO - Historical Legacy – paid special attention to this topic. However, we started our interview with more heart-to-heart conversation.

R – Tariel, soon it will be three months since our and your offices have been raided for the second time. I know what your answer might be, but I still would like to ask the question: Is there anything new about the investigation?

TG – Several days ago, I personally inquired about the situation, and met two investigators. We talked about February 26, 2009 theft and the raid taken place on February 19, 2009. The answer was of conventional type, and said nothing new: the cases are still being investigated.

I am not under an illusion, and I know for sure that the above cases will not be investigated, and the truth will not come to light under the present authorities. On the one hand, it can be understood: they won’t investigate and reveal what they have performed themselves, will they?

R – I remember that in your announcement, made after the raid, you reproached the representatives of embassies and international organizations accredited in Georgia, saying that had they paid more attention to the presentation of your book, the authorities would have been more reserved, and would not have raided the office. Were they more attentive after your announcement?

TG - International organizations should devote more attention and be more principle in terms of human rights protection in Georgia. The presentation of our book served the above goal. Our aim was not just to publish a book.

The readers may well remember that our organization developed and published the book on the conditions of human rights protection in Georgia. The book was called - The Rightless Zone. The presentation of the book was held on December 10 – the International Day for Human Rights Protection. The event was followed by the December 19 raid.

Yesterday I was invited to European Council Office in Georgia. I talked to Sabrina Buhler, an advisor on human rights issues. They were interested in December 19 incident, asked how the investigation was going on, whether the case had already been investigated. They were also interested in our activities. We talked about the related issues that rose during our conversation. Ms. Buhler promised her assistance within the frames of her competence.

I would like to take the chance, and thank her through your newspaper for her attention.

R – Tariel, your activities are not of political character, but due to the present conditions in Georgia once cannot stay away from politics. I would like to know your position about the current situation. What would you say about the actions carried out by the opposition parties, and weather they have a chance to win local elections?

TG- Tell you the truth I do not have a high opinion of the opposition. Observing them, I get an impression that they are plying the game of the Government. They must be in secret alliance with them. Just judge yourself: they’ve  got involved in the activities aimed at making changes to the Election Code, and by doing so they legitimized the changes that had been made to the legislation before, meaning that the opposition, through participating in the process, allowed the Government to make the 30% threshold for the election of Tbilisi Mayor to make legal.

This is the percentage that the present Mayor has a big chance to receive through the so called “administrative resources”, and officials who, at the same time, represent electorate. And now, what we have is that 70% of our electorate will not vote for candidate from the ruling party, but he will be still elected as a capital Mayor. All the activities performed by the opposition are directed to more or less neutralize the above situation. That is why each party has its own candidate, meaning that the above 70% will be distributed among non-ruling candidates that will actually legalize the elections.

The peculiarity of the present local elections is that Mr. Saakashvili is trying to make election process as transparent and objective as possible. He knows that foreign countries and international organizations will be critical and intolerant to obvious violations, if any. By conducting transparent elections, Saakashvili is trying to save his face, restore his reputation, and to say that he conducted fair elections.

R – Why does Mr. Saakashvili try to restore his reputation abroad? Would not it be better to do the same here, in Georgia?

TG – After the 2008 August war, Saakashvili lost the unconditional support he enjoyed from the administration of President Bush. After President Obama’s election, the USA has considerably changed its foreign policy guiding lines. It quitted to support puppet regimes, and embarked on the course of cooperation with Russia. International support of Saakashvili was totally conditioned by the USA efforts. Nobody, except for several countries and Russia, would dare speak about autocratic regime of Saakashvili, his anti-nation and anti-Georgian policy. Nobody would say a word that Georgia, pleasing the USA, made itself an international instigator, and it became obvious by waging the August war. Recently, during presidential elections in Ukraine he tried to do the same. Presently, the USA is no longer supporting Saakashvili. Hence, neither other countries close their eyes to the misbehavior of Georgian authorities. That is why Georgian President is so willing to restore his reputation in the eyes of foreign countries. His ruling and his welfare depend on the benevolence of powerful foreign countries. He only cares for his reputation within the country since the rumors about it may leak abroad. He established autocracy within the country, and the continuity of his regime does not depend on what Georgian people think about him.

R – Based on your answer, I have another question: If the USA does not have its strong interest in Georgia any more, and tries to set up close relationship with Russia, does that mean that the change of Government in Georgia now depends on Russia?

TG – I do not think it would be correct to put it like that. The US previous government used Georgian authorities for instigations against Russia. Now we are facing angered Russia alone.  The attitude of Russian authorities to Saakashvili is well-known. The system that Americans created in Georgia makes it completely dependant on external support. Knowing the above, the Government in a covert manner, and the opposition - in an overt one - try to find their guardian angels in Russia. That’s why first Nogaideli found his way to Russia, which was followed by Nino Burjanadze.

R - Does that mean that Russians shall substitute Americans in Georgia?

TG – It cannot be that straightforward. The position of Americans was to decide on a person, support him to come to power, and carry out their politics through the person, meaning that they would cooperate with individuals for the sake of their own interests, and not with the country or people. Russia is demonstrating radically opposite policy – they have more than once announced that they are planning to cooperate with Georgia and Georgian people. That’s why they meet the representatives of Georgian society and political figures expressing the position of some big or small groups of Georgians.  However, Russians remember the past activities of those people, and they well understand the real reasons beyond the visits to Moscow. That’s why they never discuss political issues with them. Russians treat them as the representatives of Georgian society, and talk to them only about the general issues of the relationship between the two countries. If you observe the meetings carefully, you will see that they did not talk about anything with Mr. Nogaideli who just thanked Putin for his decision to erect the copy of the monument in Moscow dismantled in Kutaisi (and indeed, it was worth gratefulness). Nino Burjanadze talked with Mr. Putin about the necessity of normalizing the relationships between the two countries. They were talking using general phrases.

One thing should also be taken into consideration: based on Russian Constitution, neither the Prime-Minister of Russia nor the Duma Chair represents the person responsible for the development or implementation of foreign policy – the President of Russia does. Medvedev did not meet either Nogaideli, or Burjanadze, and he will not.

R – Does that mean that the main intrigue is still ahead?

TG – I think so. On September 14, 2009 when making his speech at the international conference held in Yaroslavl, President Medvedev emphasized the following: “internal politics of individual countries are no longer their internal business, only. Incompetence of Governments and inability to solve domestic problems create obstacles for other countries as well, and inefficiency of state institutions evoke international conflicts…That’s why the states are empowered to evaluate not only their foreign, but internal policy, as well.”

Evaluating either foreign or internal policy of the country, no matter whether the above evaluation is positive or critical, means the assessment of the politicians who create and carry out the policy.

In Georgia, at least since 1995, the above persons, presently rushing to Moscow, have been the ones in the Government or in opposition. The successes of Georgian policy, if any, as well as failures are the results of their activities, nobody can compete with them. Hence, their performance should really be evaluated.

Serious and responsible people make serious and sensible policy.

The reputation of a politician is evaluated based on the principles he or she uses, and his or her partners.

Serious politicians driven by serious inspirations, choose serious partners.

We will have to wait and see whom the President of Russia will consider worth speaking about political issues.

Bondo Mdzinarashvili